About real multi-language,

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5/17/2008 10:32:51 AM
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About real multi-language,

Hi, Joe.

I Hope the mojoPortal  be a realy multi-language.

Now some parts have become multi-language through App_GlobalResources\*.resx.

But other part have not become multi-language, e.g when I add a new page,  in the "page name" text box, i can only set a page name,

If I set page name for Chinese people, then other-language people can't understand, if I set Japanese name, then Chinese people can't understand....

So, I hope the page name's format can be this:

首页/zh-cn/;Home/en/;xxx/JP/;xxx/KR/....

when the ie's codepage is zh-cn, then the page name show 首页,  when the ie's codepage is en, then show Home.....,

or add a select language combox in the page for users.

Microsoft's Dynamic CRM can fit all language's people, he use xml string to store codepage<->name  pair in database.

Thanks!

 

 

5/17/2008 11:00:28 AM
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Re: About real multi-language,

Hi,

Sorry to dissapoint you but it is not a goal of mojoPortal to support multiple languages in the same site. I recommend a different site for each language as indicated in the mojoPortal documentation about localization.

If I set page name for Chinese people, then other-language people can't understand, if I set Japanese name, then Chinese people can't understand....

Yes, that is only natural. If the site content is in Chinese its really not going to help me any if I know the page name since I don't speak or read Chinese.

In my opinion, I have never seen a single site/multi language site that was well done. Anyone who truly wants to support different languages usually uses a different site or else its a half baked solution.

Microsoft Dynamics CRM is a different beast with different requirements than what I am trying to accomplish with mojoPortal.

The only real limitation I see in mojoPortal in this regard is that the separate sites would have separate users. Perhaps someday I will implement a configuration option to allow multi sites with common users/roles. I have no plans to make it where you enter multiple page names in different languages for a single page.

Best,

Joe

5/18/2008 11:49:39 AM
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Re: About real multi-language,

Hi, Joe:

  You are right.

  But I think if these parts can't be multi-language, the other parts become multi-language through App_GlobalResources\*.resx has not too much meaning or effect too.

  I think I can do it by myself if I need this function one day. I can use the  page name as a key to find a translated name  in App_GlobalResources\*.resx, if find, I change the page name to the translated string in *.resx, if not find, I do nothing. thought this method, I can translate the page name as other parts too.

Thanks!

 

 

 

5/18/2008 12:00:55 PM
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Re: About real multi-language,

Yes, I agree the resource fallback is of very limited value for labels and button if the rest of the content is in a language the user doesn't understand. So adding page names is only a small benefit on top of that and also of little value. The user really needs all content in a language he understands. In my opinion the best way to serve that user is to make a complete site in his language. So if a site owner wants to really support multiple languages they will make a site for each language and will have complete content for each one.

Trying to do it all in one site ads a lot of complexity to the code and doesn't really produce a good solution.

The main benefit of App_GlobalResources is to make the site localizable to any single language.

Best,

Joe

5/23/2008 9:45:28 AM
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Re: About real multi-language,

I'm doing a company web site which supports 3 languages. At first, i followed Joe's idea and i setup 3 child sites for the 3 languages. My team developed a few modules and it is fine as our modules supports multiple locale. For the sake of content creator, we created a HTML module which supports editing different language in the editing page (kinda redo of the existing HTML module in mojoportal). This approach still works fine. Until recently, we notice that some modules are not meaningful to have an instance for each language, such as forum (or blog, although you may argue). What we think is we need a mechanism of fallback or switching between sites in case a module cannot be found. Another problem is, to allow implementation of "language button" switching between languages, we have to make sure either the page ID or the page name add to the portal is the same across the 3 child websites. This makes the work for people doing content management difficult if the number of pages and modules is not small. Considering this factors (we understand the advantages of using 3 sites, as we're doing it now), our team is thinking of doing 3 languages in a single site. But this requires works to modify mojoportal core and so we don't really favor this as we continue to update Joe's source from SVN :P

This a kind of a trade-off problem.

3/2/2009 10:26:08 PM
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Re: About real multi-language,

One methodology to create multilanguage 1:1 sites using Umbraco: http://www.umbraco.org/documentation/books/multilingual-11-sites

The sample site seems ok: http://www.arn-swords.com/ 

In essence, you create content fields for each language, have users fill them out, and use a xslt macro to switch the language at runtime (if no content is available, you revert back to a default language). The main advantage is that the overall site structure/design is consistent for all languages w/o any additional work.

mojoPortal is more straightforward, and it's quicker to get started (and you could argue that Umbraco xslt at runtime generates too much overhead for a parameter that is mostly static). However, having some help from the cms to be able to manage tightly coupled (mostly static) content in multiple languages might be a helpful feature.

Alex Ho,

As little as I've worked with mojoPortal, I also thought that a multilingual aware HTML module might be a good starting point, to at least get the content translated. Then, to keep the page/site structure in sync (and avoid making changes to mojoPortal's core), I thought it might be possible to use SQL triggers to replicate changes on the primary site to secondary sites (maybe having some way to flag modules as language neutral - or just replicate changes of non-neutral modules). Obviously, using triggers could break if there are changes in related mojoPortal's DB structure, but the site management code seems rather stable (and it might be easy enough to maintain until mojoPortal has a better built-in mechanism)

3/3/2009 6:02:41 AM
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Re: About real multi-language,

Hi,

My most recent advice for supporting multiple languages in mojoPortal is here:

http://www.mojoportal.com/supporting-muliple-languages.aspx

I think it is better to use separate sites per language, it reduces complexity in the architecture and better serves the user. Having translation fields in the db gets more and more complexity. There is more to supporting different cultures than just translation to really support some cultures you need different layout and a different approach.  Admittedly, just translating the content can work for some sites, it seems reasonable for the one you linked to.

Since you bring up Umbraco, I will share my 2 criticisms of Umbraco:

1. The site management lacks accessibility, it can't work at all without javascript, and even with javascript available it makes no sense to me why they force you to manage your site from a popup window, it gets blocked by default in some browsers. Browsers have tabs why not open the site administration in a new tab, the popup seems silly awkward and unconventional.

2. In my opinion there are some fundamental things that Umbraco does that I think have bad security implications. The whole web folder must be writable by the web process, and the web process can go download more executable code and put it in the /bin folder via their package installer. I'm sure user's find this slick but is seems like a very bad idea to me. I do not want my web process to be executing with permission to write to the bin folder or the Web.config as Umbraco does. There seems like potential exists to exploit that architecture.  These things may be part of the reason Umbraco doesn't work in Medium Trust like mojoPortal.

Its perfectly fine for anyone who wants to build and/or share a module that does support translation but its not something I plan to do in the core of mojoPortal, so if you are expecting that in the future you will be dissapointed. Each language deserves its own site and own authors or translators and mojoPortal already supports this well. You could easily create the same kind of site as linked above using mojoPortal today. You create a site for each language and translate the content and then use the same skin in each site or if you want to support a language with right to left layout you can make an alternate skin.

Best,

Joe

4/24/2009 2:20:12 PM
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Re: About real multi-language,

It would be nice if the UseRelatedSiteMode functionality were expand to specify sites that share data. For example say I have ten sites running and one of them needs to support 2 languages, my understanding is that for now I would need to have 2 databases and 2 code sets. One for the 2 related sites and one for the other sites that are unrelated.

 

Thanks,

 

Zack

 

 

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